• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

Partious
Member
(11-06-2017, 04:20 AM)

Originally Posted by ckaneo

Is there any proof of this? Is it possible they have different taste?

Genuinely curious.

Well, in Japan they are considered to be too cushy with publishers and advertisers etc. That led to the creation/popularity among more hardcore types of some great magazines like Game Hihyou (now long gone) back in the 90s set up specifically to be the not in the pocket of advertisers alternative to famitsu.

Famitsu's ties to publishers etc means they get decent interviews etc, the 4 line reviews are garbage though, they read like even if the reviewers actually played the game it was for a few minutes.
Outrun
Member
(11-06-2017, 04:55 AM)
Outrun's Avatar

Originally Posted by Nosgotham

lwts wait til more reputable reviews come in.

im guessing the consensus will be good, not great though.

Yeah it's been a long time since Famitsu was reputable.
delta_reg
Member
(11-06-2017, 05:53 AM)

Originally Posted by dlauv

They should work on following Adventure's footsteps in bringing classic Sonic sensibilities to 3D -- especially since they have better tech now -- rather than focusing on this dead end boost gameplay.

I 1000% agree with this notion but the problem is I doubt Sonic Team has the talent to pull that off. They might feel the same as me considering they went back to boost gameplay again after the relative failure of Sonic Lost World. Boost is likely the only gameplay they felt they could do decent and be relatively well received in the process. Which they failed that too now it's looking like.
Z..
Member
(11-06-2017, 10:23 AM)
Z..'s Avatar

Originally Posted by ZeoVGM

Nah, nothing fixed there. They're not 10/10 games but they're great. Colors is a blast from start to finish, as is Generations (if the finish is right before the dreadful final boss).

I mostly agree and had alot a fun with both and would even include Unleashed with them as a pretty decent game as well. Still nowhere near being great, you're overcompensating due to deprivation. They're okay games, very solid 6/10 experiences, but let's not pretend they're anything but slightly above average.

Originally Posted by Descendant

Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 are good times...bad camera aside. I'm sure a Sonic Adventure 3 would be an improvement over what they've done with 3D Sonic games for over 10 years.

I just want a cheesy, but entertaining plot. With a cool Rock song at the end, is that to much to ask!?

Really, really, REALLY disagree. Games are straight up average. I almost cried after finishing SA1 for the first time. Bought the DC at launch because I just had to play it... just no. Rayman 2 and Super Magnetic Neo are far superior games. Even Evil Twin destroys SA1/2. No SA ever again, please!!
_Aaron_
Member
(11-06-2017, 03:49 PM)
_Aaron_'s Avatar
Sonic fansite TSSZ News reviewed the Switch version and gave the game 2/5: http://www.tssznews.com/2017/11/06/r...ntendo-switch/

Added to OP.
nkarafo
Member
(11-06-2017, 04:10 PM)
nkarafo's Avatar

Originally Posted by Partious

The internet is ready to hate this game.
The "Mania = good, Forces = trash" narrative has been in place for about a year.

That's because Mania looked good and Forces looked like trash from the beginning. It's not that surprising.
deathsaber
Junior Member
(11-06-2017, 04:11 PM)
deathsaber's Avatar
Ouch. I think Sonic Team just needs to concede that Sonic only really works as a 2d experience using Sega Genesis-like gameplay.

The problem with 3d in general where it relates to Sonic, is IMO, that either you have to "go fast" because its Sonic- but then the game is basically barely an interactive cutscene at this point. Its pretty eye candy, but you can't really control much all that effectively, and mixing it with any kind of satisfying gameplay is near impossible, because you can't really react to anything at the high speeds- and everything is always a linear path.

Or you can slow things down, but then the way sonic controls just isn't very good or fun. These elements are where 3d Sonic is almost always blasted the most. Mario has this market cornered.

It is only in the 2d games where they find the right balance of giving the player a little speed to zip through some entertaining obstacles, but also can excel when its time to slow things down and involve a little bit of platforming or dealing with enemies. Plus they have the whole multiple paths element down pat which just works better in 2D.

Honestly, they should just hand the series off to the Sonic Mania team, rebrand "Sonic Team" and let them work on other things.
Dante83
Member
(11-06-2017, 04:12 PM)
The moment they showed the new character that you use, I knew it was going downhill. Sonic unleashed was average to me as the game had some great moments among the bad werehog sessions, and the game had some nice looking environments/vibe to it that wasn't talked about in the reviews. I enjoyed sonic generations for its amazing gameplay, but it felt like it was put together to get people to forget about sonic unleashed with little thought on the story side. I never owned the wii, so I never played sonic colors, but I heard that it was good.

Sonic forces needs just sonic with spectacular level design in 3d as those stages look cool in past games with a mix of classic sonic with good physics, and you will have a worthy sequel to sonic generations....
Stormblessed
Member
(11-06-2017, 04:20 PM)
Stormblessed's Avatar
It's obviously disappointing, but it's also not a surprise. It kind of feels like something rushed out in time for Christmas, like Sonic '06. I expect it will find an audience with the people who liked that game.
wvnative
Member
(11-06-2017, 04:53 PM)

Originally Posted by Stormblessed

It's obviously disappointing, but it's also not a surprise. It kind of feels like something rushed out in time for Christmas, like Sonic '06. I expect it will find an audience with the people who liked that game.

Sonic Forces and 06 are completely different games, so I don't see how fans of 06 would like Forces.

As for the situation, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Is Sega shoestringing their budget? Demanding they stick with boost gameplay? Rushing development? Haven't they had 5 years to work on this? How the hell does such an uninspired game like this come out that's been worked on for this long?

It seems the creative spark is gone. And I don't know if that's due to Sega meddling or if Sonic Team is burnt out. If it's the latter, then let's let a different developer tackle it, maybe just have Sonic Team make a new IP with creative freedom. If it's the former... I dunno... I'd have thought Sega would have learned from their mishandling of 06's development.

Sucks, this franchise could be so much more than what it is now. We need a new game with the same ambition that 06 had, just with you know, the proper time and budget to follow that ambition through...

Growing up with the adventure games, probably will still buy this at a discount.
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
(11-06-2017, 05:10 PM)
BodiesWithoutOrgans's Avatar
Adventure style gameplay is best for sonic in my opinion
wvnative
Member
(11-06-2017, 05:52 PM)

Originally Posted by BodiesWithoutOrgans

Adventure style gameplay is best for sonic in my opinion

This is part of the problem. Half the fans want boost, other half wants adventure. (Count me in for adventure)

What is Sonic Team to do?
SlipperyMoose
Member
(11-06-2017, 05:55 PM)
SlipperyMoose's Avatar
The game looked horrible the entire time it was shown. Especially after Sonic Mania. I know it hurts fans but I doubt you are surprised.
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
(11-06-2017, 05:59 PM)
BodiesWithoutOrgans's Avatar

Originally Posted by wvnative

This is part of the problem. Half the fans want boost, other half wants adventure. (Count me in for adventure)

What is Sonic Team to do?

Why not both?
Solid SOAP
Member
(11-06-2017, 06:03 PM)
Solid SOAP's Avatar

Originally Posted by wvnative

This is part of the problem. Half the fans want boost, other half wants adventure. (Count me in for adventure)

What is Sonic Team to do?

Release different games of consistent quality that cater to different subgroups within the fanbase. Nintendo have been making linear obstacle course Mario games since NSMB and Odyssey was just released to great success. Similarly, NSMB was the first 2D Mario in about 10 years at the time of its release.

It's possible to release games of different styles and keep the same fans throughout, SEGA just need to be consistent.
Shifty.
Member
(11-06-2017, 06:12 PM)
Shifty.'s Avatar

Originally Posted by wvnative

This is part of the problem. Half the fans want boost, other half wants adventure. (Count me in for adventure)

What is Sonic Team to do?

Don't forget the fans of Lost World style gameplay. There are dozens of us, really!

Being serious, I'm primarily in for adventure style but I'd settle for them sorting each type into its own subseries and releasing them cyclically.

Realistically speaking however, I expect them to continue layering more random gimmicks into each game as time goes on. Please be excited for Sonic Returns: Revengeance, releasing holiday 2042 with over 20 different gameplay styles in one box!
wvnative
Member
(11-06-2017, 06:15 PM)
True, they could do a call of duty style two year dev cycle, with alternating years. Adventure one year, Boost the next.

Is Sonic Team big enough to have two teams working on two different styles of games?
ckaneo
Member
(11-06-2017, 06:27 PM)
ckaneo's Avatar
I'm convinced if they can nail Adventure Sonic nobody will be asking for boost. But judging by 06, they probably cant.

What I can say is that Sonic Team has misplaced ambition. They try hard, but always in the wrong areas.
Cloud7
Member
(11-06-2017, 06:28 PM)
Cloud7's Avatar
Why can't they just make a Sonic Adventure 3-style game with only Sonic stages that are in that style? That was the best 3D they've done to date in my opinion. Why not just go back to that well but with new graphics?
pauloshinobi
Member
(11-06-2017, 06:42 PM)
I strongly believe that a 3D Sonic game with more racing-like gameplay (think trackmania) could work. Hand it to the All stars Racing team.
Shifty.
Member
(11-06-2017, 07:38 PM)
Shifty.'s Avatar

Originally Posted by Cloud7

Why can't they just make a Sonic Adventure 3-style game with only Sonic stages that are in that style? That was the best 3D they've done to date in my opinion. Why not just go back to that well but with new graphics?

"Let's try the Adventure formula again for our next game"
"No, adventure doesn't sell"
"Why not?"
"Sonic 06 didn't sell"
"But Sonic 06 was an unfinished mess that was rushed out the door with no regard for its qualit-"
"QUIET, SONIC IS THE GREAT BRAND"
AdanVC
Member
(11-06-2017, 07:44 PM)
AdanVC's Avatar
And to think I was kinda hoping this game would be on the caliber of Super Mario Odyssey so they could compete each other as the big platformer of the holidays but looool. Judging by those few reviews, this is nothing but another average/bad 3D Sonic game. SEGA needs to give up on 3D Sonic and just make 2D Sonic games ala Sonic Mania from now on.
NeoMetallix
Member
(11-06-2017, 07:56 PM)
NeoMetallix's Avatar

Originally Posted by Cloud7

Why can't they just make a Sonic Adventure 3-style game with only Sonic stages that are in that style? That was the best 3D they've done to date in my opinion. Why not just go back to that well but with new graphics?

They could but it wouldn’t garner any better reception. I agree it was their best but now you have people rewriting history saying 3D Sonic was never good. Lol Despite the fact the Adventure games are the highest rated of all time in the franchise. For their time they were great. Now they have aged but with more polish they’d be just fine. Thing is is the Sonic only stages in both games could be completed almost as quickly as the 2D games could and only lasted maybe an hour without the story padding.
MvCSpiderman
Member
(11-06-2017, 08:17 PM)
MvCSpiderman's Avatar

Originally Posted by Shifty.

"Let's try the Adventure formula again for our next game"
"No, adventure doesn't sell"
"Why not?"
"Sonic 06 didn't sell"
"But Sonic 06 was an unfinished mess that was rushed out the door with no regard for its qualit-"
"QUIET, SONIC IS THE GREAT BRAND"

Bugs being removed would have at best moved Sonic 05's 4 score to a 5.
Keihart
Member
(11-07-2017, 04:06 AM)
Keihart's Avatar

Originally Posted by deathsaber

Ouch. I think Sonic Team just needs to concede that Sonic only really works as a 2d experience using Sega Genesis-like gameplay.

The problem with 3d in general where it relates to Sonic, is IMO, that either you have to "go fast" because its Sonic- but then the game is basically barely an interactive cutscene at this point. Its pretty eye candy, but you can't really control much all that effectively, and mixing it with any kind of satisfying gameplay is near impossible, because you can't really react to anything at the high speeds- and everything is always a linear path.

Or you can slow things down, but then the way sonic controls just isn't very good or fun. These elements are where 3d Sonic is almost always blasted the most. Mario has this market cornered.

It is only in the 2d games where they find the right balance of giving the player a little speed to zip through some entertaining obstacles, but also can excel when its time to slow things down and involve a little bit of platforming or dealing with enemies. Plus they have the whole multiple paths element down pat which just works better in 2D.

Honestly, they should just hand the series off to the Sonic Mania team, rebrand "Sonic Team" and let them work on other things.

I love Sonic Mania and most classic sonic games, but you have no idea of what you are talking Sir, Sonic in 3d works, what doesn't work is triying to reinvent the wheel every time that you make a new Sonic game instead of learning and improving where there is room for it. Generations was basically the first iterative game in design for that whole console generation and it proves how much better it could get.

This narrative of Sonic was never good or Sonic 3d was never good need to stop, it's not fact nor is true.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
(11-07-2017, 04:39 AM)
Dr. Kitty Muffins's Avatar
I don't often want to see more open world games but I feel like Sonic would work in a Zelda style open world title.
Dead End Irony
Member
(11-07-2017, 04:44 AM)

Originally Posted by Dr. Kitty Muffins

I don't often want to see more open world games but I feel like Sonic would work in a Zelda style open world title.

Same here. Wish there was a team that could do the idea justice.
MrCunningham
Member
(11-07-2017, 05:22 AM)
MrCunningham's Avatar

Originally Posted by _Aaron_


Famitsu - 35/40 (9, 9, 9, 8)

Did Sega money hat Famitsu?
darkziosj
Member
(11-07-2017, 05:56 AM)
darkziosj's Avatar
Less 3d crappy sonic games, more mania like games.
OuterLimits
Member
(11-07-2017, 06:03 AM)
OuterLimits's Avatar
Does Famitsu ever give out terrible scores?
Alter_Fridge
Member
(11-07-2017, 06:38 AM)
Alter_Fridge's Avatar

Originally Posted by OuterLimits

Does Famitsu ever give out terrible scores?

Famistu grades your question 10, 9, 9, 8
888eddyx
Member
(11-07-2017, 07:06 AM)
888eddyx's Avatar
I really hope this ends up being good, after the great games that were Generations and Colors, this would be so disappointing if it's not around their level.
Alter_Fridge
Member
(11-07-2017, 07:12 AM)
Alter_Fridge's Avatar

Originally Posted by 888eddyx

I really hope this ends up being good

Spukc
Member
(11-07-2017, 07:56 AM)
Spukc's Avatar

Originally Posted by Alter_Fridge

Famistu grades your question 10, 9, 9, 8

Reply rated
10, 9, 8, 8
Alter_Fridge
Member
(11-07-2017, 08:17 AM)
Alter_Fridge's Avatar

Originally Posted by Spukc

Reply rated
10, 9, 8, 8

Net effect: still no close to knowing if it was a good reply or not
Sir_Stoo
Member
(11-07-2017, 09:51 AM)
Sir_Stoo's Avatar
Time to let the Sonic Mania team take the reins with a AAA budget.
_Aaron_
Member
(11-07-2017, 11:48 PM)
_Aaron_'s Avatar
destructoid 5.5/10: https://www.destructoid.com/review-s...s-471431.phtml
MvCSpiderman
Member
(11-08-2017, 01:53 AM)
MvCSpiderman's Avatar
So uh this sliding animation took 4 years to make according to SEGA? What the heck happened?

https://makeagif.com/i/xCm4me
MvCSpiderman
Member
(11-08-2017, 02:24 AM)
MvCSpiderman's Avatar

Originally Posted by Solid SOAP

Release different games of consistent quality that cater to different subgroups within the fanbase. Nintendo have been making linear obstacle course Mario games since NSMB and Odyssey was just released to great success. Similarly, NSMB was the first 2D Mario in about 10 years at the time of its release.

It's possible to release games of different styles and keep the same fans throughout, SEGA just need to be consistent.


They did this before. They did different style games from 2000-20008.
Solid SOAP
Member
(11-08-2017, 02:34 AM)
Solid SOAP's Avatar

Originally Posted by MvCSpiderman

They did this before. They did different style games from 2000-20008.

Like maybe 2 of them were good tho, and even so very, very few of them cater to one specific gameplay style.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
(11-08-2017, 03:18 AM)
Dr. Kitty Muffins's Avatar
Sega needs to hand Sonic off to a new development team. Don't let any of the former developers from Sonic Team work on it.
SweetJohnnyCage
Member
(11-08-2017, 03:31 AM)
SweetJohnnyCage's Avatar
Can't say I'm surprised. The launch trailer looked like a mess. I couldn't tell what was going on sometimes. I just don't think Sonic translates to 3D at all well.
KNT-Zero
Member
(11-08-2017, 09:08 AM)
KNT-Zero's Avatar
Wow, they managed to recapture the cringe-worthiness of Sonic Heroes!

You know something is wrong with the Sonic Team if a game made by a third party (Sonic Mania) performed way better in quality and reception...
Junahu
Member
(11-08-2017, 11:31 AM)
Junahu's Avatar
Could they have possibly picked a worse time to launch than immediately AFTER Mario Odyssey? Even if by some fluke the game was competant, it was always going to lose when stood next to Nintendo's powerhouse platformer.
nkarafo
Member
(11-08-2017, 11:43 AM)
nkarafo's Avatar
It's time to give up Sonic to Whitehead and gang for good and Sega should concentrate to other things. Arcade racing games would be a better fit for them.
IpsoFacto
Member
(11-08-2017, 11:47 AM)
IpsoFacto's Avatar
The spanish game magazine Hobby Consolas gave Sonic Force a 57/100.

In context, it's barely a positive score. Putting it somewhere around the 5/10 or 6/10 mark.

In their final remarks, on the one hand they praised the avatar creation portion of the game. On the other, they criticized the game for being short and too easy.
Evilchris
Junior Member
(11-08-2017, 11:50 AM)
Evilchris's Avatar
- DigitalCentralMedia : 75 / 100
- IGN Italy: 60 / 100
- Hobby Consolas : 57 / 100
- Destructoid : 55 / 100
- IGN Spain : 55 / 100
- Polygon : 50 / 100
- FingerGuns : 50 / 100
- MetroGameCentral : 40 / 100
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
(11-08-2017, 12:34 PM)
BodiesWithoutOrgans's Avatar
Sonic Team needs to go
MvCSpiderman
Member
(11-08-2017, 01:57 PM)
MvCSpiderman's Avatar

Originally Posted by Solid SOAP

Like maybe 2 of them were good tho, and even so very, very few of them cater to one specific gameplay style.

Actually most if them did exactly that. Go look up those games again
down 2 orth
Member
(11-08-2017, 02:31 PM)
down 2 orth's Avatar
Why do they still make Sonic games... do enough people buy them?

Thread Tools