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Rich!
If this is a retro/homebrew thread, I'm a helpful poster.

If not, I'm either angry about something minor or ranting about how much GAF sucks because everyone is angry all the time.

This tag will disappear when it is no longer true.
(11-18-2014, 06:03 PM)
Rich!'s Avatar

Originally Posted by delt31

What is preventing Nintendo from patching this asap?

The simple fact that they can't.
  • It's an out of print title
  • Due to the way the 3DS OS works, it's unpatchable without users being able to simply delete the patch afterwards
  • The development team who made it went out of business in 2011 - who's going to develop a patch?
  • It's a physical cart and uses an exploit tied to a system unique for that game - not an exploit in the 3DS OS itself
  • It doesn't need to install anything to the 3DS OS at all. Even if Nintendo restricted stuff from being installed in the 3DS system menu itself, you would still be able to run homebrew and region free by booting up Cubic Ninja first - there's no preventing that
redmetal86
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:08 PM)
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Oh god, all the cheaper Buy it now's on ebay are disappearing. I literally just saw a new $15 listing go away. Also:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-SE...item20f0a4cff3
Rich!
If this is a retro/homebrew thread, I'm a helpful poster.

If not, I'm either angry about something minor or ranting about how much GAF sucks because everyone is angry all the time.

This tag will disappear when it is no longer true.
(11-18-2014, 06:11 PM)
Rich!'s Avatar

Originally Posted by redmetal86

Oh god, all the cheaper Buy it now's on ebay are disappearing. I literally just saw a new $15 listing go away.

You think that's bad? You should see ebay.co.uk:



Yep. Those are the last three left on the entire site. Bear in mind that 65 is US$100.
Kouriozan
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:13 PM)
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"Homebrew enabler" :lol
CDX
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:13 PM)
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My Cubic Ninja purchase from last night was just cancelled.

Sadness :(
RionaaM
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:13 PM)

Originally Posted by stan423321

Well, basically you're right, but it's quite complex:

  • Homebrew Channel itself is only a convenience as it simplifies launching stuff instead of relaunching exploits over and over again. The AHBPROT... thing... that was added at some point... well it is used by most of these programs nowadays, but again that's a convenience thing.
  • If there were no unsigned code exploits, there would be neither a Homebrew Channel or a cIOS based USB loader working, so they have something in common.
  • Wii piracy itself was possible before unsigned code exploits, by means of modding the optical drive, and loads of people did that.
  • It could be possible for some insane hacker team to convert a retail game to homebrew.
  • It could be possible for some moderately stubborn hacker to tweak the Wii cheat programs, usually considered a "non-rogue" homebrew, so that they enable piracy without modifying system files.

I honestly don't expect anything amazing happening at 3DS homebrew anytime soon. I would buy the thing if it stayed at 5 EUR, heck if it stayed at 20 EUR, but I guess I missed the clock. Curse the university. As the game itself doesn't interest me, I'll probably pass.

This is very interesting, thanks for sharing. It's amazing the stuff dedicated people can pull off, even if it's not always in the company's best interests (like piracy). But homebrew software can add a lot to a console, so it's a nice thing to have anyway. Being able to play GBA games on a non-Ambassador 3DS would be great.
Vigilant Gambit
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by richisawesome

The simple fact that they can't.

  • It's an out of print title
  • Due to the way the 3DS OS works, it's unpatchable without users being able to simply delete the patch afterwards
  • The development team who made it went out of business in 2011 - who's going to develop a patch?
  • It's a physical cart and uses an exploit tied to a system unique for that game - not an exploit in the 3DS OS itself
  • It doesn't need to install anything to the 3DS OS at all. Even if Nintendo restricted stuff from being installed in the 3DS system menu itself, you would still be able to run homebrew and region free by booting up Cubic Ninja first - there's no preventing that

Yep. It's a usermode exploit. Basically, Nintendo doesn't have a way to differentiate legitimate Cubic Ninja code from homebrew code, because technically, the game has permission to call all the functions homebrew applications would use to run, say, an SNES emulator. Similar exploits on the PSP, as far as I can tell after a bit of searching, also went unpatched. When the attack vector is a game, and it's a usermode exploit, you're pretty much set.

Now, if this were a kernel exploit in some way, then Nintendo would be able to patch it on their end, but in this case, the game never tries to do anything it isn't already supposed to be able to do, so there's nothing for the OS to really detect.

And if it enables region unlocking, then this is pretty much the best kind of exploit. It's just a shame that it's only for such a random, out of print game, though I guess someone could import a Japanese 3DS and then use the eShop version of the game as a passthrough or something.
DR2K
Doesn't buy fighting games to actually play them
(11-18-2014, 06:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by FatalT

I really don't know what to say to you if you can't make a phone call to Nintendo to get your digital games back. Argument over with that response.

It shouldn't be the default way to maybe get your games back.
LamerDeluxe
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:20 PM)
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Just got my copy, secondhand for 15. The website kept on giving errors when I tried to place my order, had to enter my details over and over again, finally went through when I decided not to enter my membership ID.

Clerk told me some guy grabbed it after I ordered it, luckily they told him it was reserved (last copy). They wrote down his details just in case I didn't show up :^)

Looking forward to seeing some cool 3D demos with this.
TheCongressman1
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:20 PM)
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What are the chances this will lead to another more easily available method? Maybe something like the letterbomb loader for wii.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:21 PM)
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Is there any reason to keep the game once you've done the exploit? If not, I assume prices will come back down or at least not continue to skyrocket up as everyone just buys the game, uses it, and resells it.
Isotope
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hero_of_the_Day

Is there any reason to keep the game once you've done the exploit? If not, I assume prices will come back down or at least not continue to skyrocket up as everyone just buys the game, uses it, and resells it.

Cubic Ninja needs to be inserted each time. So you're going to want to keep it to launch homebrew.
sixteen-bit
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Hero_of_the_Day

Is there any reason to keep the game once you've done the exploit? If not, I assume prices will come back down or at least not continue to skyrocket up as everyone just buys the game, uses it, and resells it.

Yes. You need to run the exploit from the game every time. It's not permanent.
TheCongressman1
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hero_of_the_Day

Is there any reason to keep the game once you've done the exploit? If not, I assume prices will come back down or at least not continue to skyrocket up as everyone just buys the game, uses it, and resells it.

You apparently need to use it every time you want to load it, which is why I want to know if we will ever see a more permanent solution.
UncleSporky
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:24 PM)

Originally Posted by richisawesome

The simple fact that they can't.

  • It's an out of print title
  • Due to the way the 3DS OS works, it's unpatchable without users being able to simply delete the patch afterwards
  • The development team who made it went out of business in 2011 - who's going to develop a patch?
  • It's a physical cart and uses an exploit tied to a system unique for that game - not an exploit in the 3DS OS itself
  • It doesn't need to install anything to the 3DS OS at all. Even if Nintendo restricted stuff from being installed in the 3DS system menu itself, you would still be able to run homebrew and region free by booting up Cubic Ninja first - there's no preventing that

I'm pretty sure they could patch it.

- Release as a required and automatic system update

- Block Cubic Ninja from booting on the 3DS on a hardware level, pop up a message saying that the game is being used for system exploits and will be patched to work again at a later date

Done.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
(11-18-2014, 06:25 PM)

Originally Posted by UncleSporky

I'm pretty sure they could patch it.

- Release as a required and automatic system update

- Block Cubic Ninja from booting on the 3DS on a hardware level, pop up a message saying that the game is being used for system exploits and will be patched to work again at a later date

Done.

Turn off wifi?
friskykillface
Banned
(11-18-2014, 06:25 PM)
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prices just went from $20 to $40 on amazon lol, insane

the thirst is real, gamestop called me to say my pick up hold was canceled due to 2 people i guess placing an order before me but the funny thing is that he marked it as picked up since he didn't want a bad record or something

my tin foil hat is that he knew and got it for himself
ChaosAngel
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:26 PM)
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Just picked up a 5.00$ copy from Rock30. Never ordered from them before, but the price seems too good to pass up. Hopefully everything goes through.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by sixteen-bit

Yes. You need to run the exploit from the game every time. It's not permanent.

Originally Posted by Isotope

Cubic Ninja needs to be inserted each time. So you're going to want to keep it to launch homebrew.

I see. Kind of a pain that you have to launch the game every time, but oh well.

Is it crazy that I'm tempted to buy a New 3DS and hope region unlocking is a go by the time it gets here?
Snarfington
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:27 PM)
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I mean they could scan the SD card and remove offending exploit files at every boot, but that wouldn't stop anything really, just be a bit of an annoyance until it's worked around.
giga-ganon
Banned
(11-18-2014, 06:27 PM)
Sorry didn't read the whole thread, but can we unlock the console region with this exploit?
Rich!
If this is a retro/homebrew thread, I'm a helpful poster.

If not, I'm either angry about something minor or ranting about how much GAF sucks because everyone is angry all the time.

This tag will disappear when it is no longer true.
(11-18-2014, 06:28 PM)
Rich!'s Avatar

Originally Posted by UncleSporky

I'm pretty sure they could patch it.

- Release as a required and automatic system update

- Block Cubic Ninja from booting on the 3DS on a hardware level, pop up a message saying that the game is being used for system exploits and will be patched to work again at a later date

Done.

That would be illegal here in the UK. You cannot prevent consumers from using legally purchased software in that way.

Done.
captmcblack
God-Tier ghetto pass
(11-18-2014, 06:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by UncleSporky

I'm pretty sure they could patch it.

- Release as a required and automatic system update

- Block Cubic Ninja from booting on the 3DS on a hardware level, pop up a message saying that the game is being used for system exploits and will be patched to work again at a later date

Done.

So retroactively/indefinitely make the game - an official, licensed release that Ubisoft had to actually pay money to Nintendo to produce carts of - an unlicensed release that people who spent money to play/own it can not, and can no longer use? I dont think that will work, just like in the DS days with flashcards and cheat carts that used legit game headers to acquire permission to run. The exploitable PSP games or PS1 minis or whatever that existed on Vita could be blocked since there was never a retail Vita release that also:

- needed to have its status as valid playable software revoked
- required publishing by the hardware mfgr in order to be an official licensed physical retail release

Even if end user complaints could be ignored for system safety, I feel like it'd be tough to either revoke Ubi's legit product, or refund Ubi's printing/publishing cost to decertify the game.
Akiller
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:33 PM)
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Now imagine if Watch Dogs was the exploit for the WiiU Homebrew.
Quadraphonic
XBONE Detective
(11-18-2014, 06:33 PM)

Originally Posted by friskykillface

prices just went from $20 to $40 on amazon lol, insane

the thirst is real, gamestop called me to say my pick up hold was canceled due to 2 people i guess placing an order before me but the funny thing is that he marked it as picked up since he didn't want a bad record or something

my tin foil hat is that he knew and got it for himself

Call corporate. Report that shit.
stan423321
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Snarfington

I mean they could scan the SD card and remove offending exploit files at every boot, but that wouldn't stop anything really, just be a bit of an annoyance until it's worked around.

Well, actually... that's how they blocked the Twilight Hack on Wii. They didn't block the similar third-party exploits though. And unlike with Wii, I think 3DS will protect loudly if you take out SD card during its operation. (No, I won't check that.)

Also, you just gave me an idea how to block Smash Stack on Wii U for good, which probably isn't the best idea ever but sounds completely implementable. Maybe I should thinking about blocking ssspwn for mental exercise.
rekameohs
Banned
(11-18-2014, 06:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by stan423321

Well, actually... that's how they blocked the Twilight Hack on Wii. They didn't block the similar third-party exploits though. And unlike with Wii, I think 3DS will protect loudly if you take out SD card during its operation. (No, I won't check that.)

Also, you just gave me an idea how to block Smash Stack on Wii U for good, which probably isn't the best idea ever but sounds completely implementable. Maybe I should thinking about blocking ssspwn for mental exercise.

Nintendo's Smash Stack block actually does exactly that on Wii U - deletes the file on boot. But you can just load Brawl and then put the SD card in, and the exploit works.
UncleSporky
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:41 PM)

Originally Posted by SheepyGuy

Turn off wifi?

It was being argued that it couldn't be patched (which is false), not that it couldn't be prevented completely (which is true). You can always turn off wifi. That doesn't mean that Nintendo can't patch it out of operation.

Originally Posted by richisawesome

That would be illegal here in the UK. You cannot prevent consumers from using legally purchased software in that way.

Done.

What did Sony do about those PS1 games that people bought to play on Vita that were blocked in short order?

You can't prevent people from using software even temporarily? What if it's causing devices to "malfunction?"

Regardless of all that, Nintendo can prevent users from running software until it's been updated. They do it now. I try to boot up Pokemon X or something and it says "hey, you need to update this software from the eShop first." So they could do the same here, provided they come up with a legit patch. I suspect all they have to do is block interaction with the SD card.

Maybe you can't prevent consumers from using legally purchased software, but you can neuter the fuck out of it. Forced update that disallows users from loading save games, that sort of thing. Spin it as an added challenge, or call it an accident that will be fixed shortly.

Fact is, it's patchable.
Quadraphonic
XBONE Detective
(11-18-2014, 06:43 PM)

Originally Posted by UncleSporky

What did Sony do about those PS1 games that people bought to play on Vita that were blocked in short order?

You can't prevent people from using software even temporarily? What if it's causing devices to "malfunction?"

Nothing. In fact, I still have them in my DOWNLOAD QUEUE on my PSN account, so I can load them later.
ec0ec0
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:46 PM)
I am going to the store on a bus. I will be there in half an hour. My game (their only copy) should still be waiting for me there... i hope.
Kouriozan
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by giga-ganon

Sorry didn't read the whole thread, but can we unlock the console region with this exploit?

Not at release.
Vigilant Gambit
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by friskykillface

prices just went from $20 to $40 on amazon lol, insane

the thirst is real, gamestop called me to say my pick up hold was canceled due to 2 people i guess placing an order before me but the funny thing is that he marked it as picked up since he didn't want a bad record or something

my tin foil hat is that he knew and got it for himself

Gamestop employees are unaware of exactly what's going on, but information is just now starting to spread. All they know is this particular game is suddenly popular.

I said this before, but those holds you can put in? Either online or by calling in? They are completely up to the whim of the employees.

I can say from firsthand experience that being in the store and wanting the game is much more effective than clicking a button online, from a getting the game standpoint.

Originally Posted by ec0ec0

I am going to the store on a bus. I will be there in half an hour. My game (their only copy) should still be waiting for me there... i hope.

Probably not, man. Dudes on the east coast are already on the road as of 2-3 hours ago.
stan423321
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by rekameohs

Nintendo's Smash Stack block actually does exactly that on Wii U - deletes the file on boot. But you can just load Brawl and then put the SD card in, and the exploit works.

I said for good, and I meant it (assuming the current block itself is well-written, and, well, also assuming that I'm right).

Originally Posted by richisawesome

That would be illegal here in the UK. You cannot prevent consumers from using legally purchased software in that way.

Done.

Interesting. Did you get any consolation cash in UK when Sony removed Linux support from PS3s? That would be some sort of comparison..
UncleSporky
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:58 PM)

Originally Posted by Quadraphonic

Nothing. In fact, I still have them in my DOWNLOAD QUEUE on my PSN account, so I can load them later.

Right. You can't play them on your Vita now, but you still own them so you can play them when/if they're patched in later.

Just like you wouldn't be able to play Cubic Ninja now, but you still own it so you can play it when/if it's patched later.
BernardoOne
Banned
(11-18-2014, 06:58 PM)

Originally Posted by Cyd0nia

Thread needs "/piracy" in the title, because we all know it's true. I can't pretend I'm in favour of this news because I think it will damage the platform. Hopefully the likes of Majoras Mask and other releases can kill it somehow.

No, that doesn't make any fucking sense. This homebrew doesn't allow for piracy and if anyone is looking for piracy they can already get flashcarts that do exactly that. This homebrew will do nothing to "damage" the platform.
Kurtofan
Member
(11-18-2014, 06:59 PM)
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I hope this is a big dud so that people paid fortunes for some shovelware for no reason.
friskykillface
Banned
(11-18-2014, 07:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Quadraphonic

Call corporate. Report that shit.

haha that tag , i need your help detective :P but meh the guy is just shook

Originally Posted by Vigilant Gambit

Gamestop employees are unaware of exactly what's going on, but information is just now starting to spread. All they know is this particular game is suddenly popular.

I said this before, but those holds you can put in? Either online or by calling in? They are completely up to the whim of the employees.

I can say from firsthand experience that being in the store and wanting the game is much more effective than clicking a button online, from a getting the game standpoint.
.

i was close to waiting at 9 am for the store to open but said why not and tried holding but failed but i agree with what you said


well, i got an email saying i can pick it up, like its confirmed D: if i go and its not available i will bitch since its pretty far x call corporate , i got proof now :P
DorkyMohr
Member
(11-18-2014, 07:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

No, that doesn't make any fucking sense. This homebrew doesn't allow for piracy and if anyone is looking for piracy they can already get flashcarts that do exactly that. This homebrew will do nothing to "damage" the platform.

What about Virtual Console? Isn't homebrew mainly used for emulators?
Vena
Member
(11-18-2014, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

No, that doesn't make any fucking sense. This homebrew doesn't allow for piracy and if anyone is looking for piracy they can already get flashcarts that do exactly that. This homebrew will do nothing to "damage" the platform.

Last I ever checked, 3DS does not have flash karts for the 3DS software.

You're also entirely missing the point of what emulators will do to virtual console sales.
gngf123
Member
(11-18-2014, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vena

Last I ever checked, 3DS does not have flash karts for the 3DS software.

Gateway pretty much does just that.
Rich!
If this is a retro/homebrew thread, I'm a helpful poster.

If not, I'm either angry about something minor or ranting about how much GAF sucks because everyone is angry all the time.

This tag will disappear when it is no longer true.
(11-18-2014, 07:08 PM)
Rich!'s Avatar

Originally Posted by Vena

Last I ever checked, 3DS does not have flash karts for the 3DS software.

Of course it does. The Gateway flash card is widely available and is being updated to work on all firmwares.
Vena
Member
(11-18-2014, 07:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by gngf123

Gateway pretty much does just that.

Oh? Then I stand corrected. I wasn't aware of this work around.

Pity.

Originally Posted by richisawesome

Of course it does. The Gateway flash card is widely available and is being updated to work on all firmwares.

I see. That's a shame.
ec0ec0
Member
(11-18-2014, 07:10 PM)

Originally Posted by Vigilant Gambit

Probably not, man. Dudes on the east coast are already on the road as of 2-3 hours ago.

Hopefully the spanish ones are not :p (thats were i live)

Now, if the game is not there, i am going to get really mad. I saw the news thanks to this thread 8 hours ago (a couple of hours after the thread was created). If it wasnt because i HAD to be in home until now because today some technicians came to change the gas... i could have been in the store 7 f*cking hours ago.

I am going to kill someone if the game is not there... (i am a little worried :p)
PhoncipleBone
Banned
(11-18-2014, 07:10 PM)
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Had local GameStop hold it by checking online. Just walked in and got it. Time to play.
iamaustrian
(11-18-2014, 07:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by DorkyMohr

What about Virtual Console? Isn't homebrew mainly used for emulators?

Apparently running GB and GBC emulators with roms isn't considered "pirating".

(I'm not ok with it)
deltatheta
Member
(11-18-2014, 07:12 PM)
This would be a great scam. Buy up a few hundred copies of some dirt cheap but fairly rare 3DS game, get a known hacker to announce an exploit for said game, wait a few days until the price has been driven up to obscene levels and profit.
BernardoOne
Banned
(11-18-2014, 07:14 PM)

Originally Posted by Vena

Last I ever checked, 3DS does not have flash karts for the 3DS software.

You're also entirely missing the point of what emulators will do to virtual console sales.

There is. Check Gateway. Has been available for quite some time already and they recently got it working on new firmwares as well.

And no, I don't think it will affect sales of VC sales by much, if at all. If you want to pirate those you can already play them in every other device you own. Hell, at least this puts a fire under Nintendo's asses and maybe they will think of doing proper good emulation on their VC titles instead of the absolute minimum required.

Originally Posted by iamaustrian

Apparently running GB and GBC emulators with roms isn't considered "pirating".

(I'm not ok with it)

If you own them then no, it isn't pirating. If you don't own them, then it is pirating. Not that it matters much at all, no devs or publishers are getting any money from those titles (except on cases where they are available in digital form of course) so pirating or buying those used are basically the same thing.
gngf123
Member
(11-18-2014, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by iamaustrian

Apparently running GB and GBC emulators with roms isn't considered "pirating".

(I'm not ok with it)

It isn't if you take backups of the games yourself.

I'm actually not familiar enough with those devices to know how easily available the backup devices are, but I'd be killing for a half decent SNES emulator.
M3d10n
Member
(11-18-2014, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by richisawesome

The simple fact that they can't.

  • It's an out of print title
  • Due to the way the 3DS OS works, it's unpatchable without users being able to simply delete the patch afterwards
  • The development team who made it went out of business in 2011 - who's going to develop a patch?
  • It's a physical cart and uses an exploit tied to a system unique for that game - not an exploit in the 3DS OS itself
  • It doesn't need to install anything to the 3DS OS at all. Even if Nintendo restricted stuff from being installed in the 3DS system menu itself, you would still be able to run homebrew and region free by booting up Cubic Ninja first - there's no preventing that

Actually, if Nintendo *really* wanted to could patch the 3DS firmware itself to "patch" the game during load and close the exploit. But since the game exists in limited quantities, they might not even bother.
Rich!
If this is a retro/homebrew thread, I'm a helpful poster.

If not, I'm either angry about something minor or ranting about how much GAF sucks because everyone is angry all the time.

This tag will disappear when it is no longer true.
(11-18-2014, 07:16 PM)
Rich!'s Avatar

Originally Posted by gngf123

It isn't if you take backups of the games yourself.

I'm actually not familiar enough with those devices to know how easily available the backup devices are, but I'd be killing for a half decent SNES emulator.

I backed up all of my Game Boy and GBC games with a Transfer Pak and an Everdrive 64. Anyone in the gbc retro thread can attest to that.

I also backed up all my GBA games using a DS lite and flashcart and SNES games with a retrode.

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