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MysteryQuesadilla
Member
(09-29-2017, 04:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Duo

Great stuff, the military always gets bashed here as if its some direct hand of Conservatives but there are a lot of good people who have passed through its halls.

Does it? Honest question. Am military and never really noticed any anti-military personnel fervor.
Mahonay
Member
(09-29-2017, 05:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by MysteryQuesadilla

Does it? Honest question. Am military and never really noticed any anti-military personnel fervor.

GAF for the most part is definitely anti-war and anti-blind patriotism, but yeah I wouldn't say we give too much shit to military personnel themselves. Unless someone is being awful.
Hollywood Duo
Member
(09-29-2017, 05:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by MysteryQuesadilla

Does it? Honest question. Am military and never really noticed any anti-military personnel fervor.

Not really individual accusations but overall institutional labeling in the anti Trump fervor there is always a couple people who say Trump is going to have the military take over the country/attack other citizens. Which is of course ridiculous.
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
(09-29-2017, 05:10 PM)
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Yeah I totally see that (anti-war) stance but I didn't see where that translated to anti-service member is all. Unless I'm reading the original post wrong.
Gattsu25
Banned
(09-29-2017, 05:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by MysteryQuesadilla

Yeah I totally see that (anti-war) stance but I didn't see where that translated to anti-service member is all. Unless I'm reading the original post wrong.

Nah, it's just some people conflate anti-war with anti-military personnel
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
(09-29-2017, 05:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gattsu25

Nah, it's just some people conflate anti-war with anti-military personnel

Gotcha.
Anth0ny
Member
(09-29-2017, 05:15 PM)
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“If you can’t treat someone with dignity and respect, then you need to get out. If you can’t treat someone from another gender, whether that’s a man or a woman, with dignity and respect, then you need to get out. If you demean someone in any way, then you need to get out. And if you can’t treat someone from another race, or a different color of skin, with dignity and respect, than you need to get out.”

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Imperfected
Member
(09-29-2017, 05:15 PM)
Most people in the military are actually anti-war, since they're the ones that have to fight a war and would rather it wouldn't be for stupid reasons. At least that's my experience as an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran.
zelas
Member
(09-29-2017, 05:16 PM)
*selective use of first amendment arguments increases*
Mortemis
Banned
(09-29-2017, 05:32 PM)

Originally Posted by xelloss12

I'm pretty sure the Air Force has been considered the most right wing and racist of the US military branches, with the Navy being the best.

Good on this guy though.

Haven't heard about that, that sucks. I have family and friends in both the Air Force and navy and have only heard good things, mostly just hear that the army and especially marines are the most racist.

Originally Posted by Forerunner

His racism claim does have some merit to it. There have been studies done that show that black airman are far more likely to face punishment than white airmen compared to the other branches.


Here's a link to the full study.

Anecdotally, my unit was notably racist and sexist. It was all male and probably ~90% white. We would have indoc and none of the women would pass. Even if some did they would find some way to wash them out. I heard my leadership talking before and they said women were too much of a problem. The majority of the people that passed were white male airmen. It was one of the reasons I decided to separate. It was a very toxic environment.

All that being said. I still enjoyed my time in the Air Force and that was a great speech. We need more leaders like him.

That was a good (but really sad) read. Thanks.
aeolist
Banned
(09-29-2017, 05:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by John Rabbit

This is the America we should be.

the kind where bigotry is systemic and anti-bigotry is entirely rhetorical?
Hubbl3
Member
(09-29-2017, 05:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Imperfected

Most people in the military are actually anti-war, since they're the ones that have to fight a war and would rather it wouldn't be for stupid reasons. At least that's my experience as an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran.

I don't know if "anit-war" is the right term, but I agree that a lot of people have no desire to fight a war for stupid reasons. The prevailing thought from the people I was stationed with and a lot of folks that I deployed with was definitely that we shouldn't default to waging war if diplomacy is a viable option.

Originally Posted by Mortemis

Haven't heard about that, that sucks. I have family and friends in both the Air Force and navy and have only heard good things, mostly just hear that the army and especially marines are the most racist.
.

Anecdotally, that was my experience while I was in.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
(09-29-2017, 05:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Forerunner

His racism claim does have some merit to it. There have been studies done that show that black airman are far more likely to face punishment than white airmen compared to the other branches.


Here's a link to the full study.

Anecdotally, my unit was notably racist and sexist. It was all male and probably ~90% white. We would have indoc and none of the women would pass. Even if some did they would find some way to wash them out. I heard my leadership talking before and they said women were too much of a problem. The majority of the people that passed were white male airmen. It was one of the reasons I decided to separate. It was a very toxic environment.

All that being said. I still enjoyed my time in the Air Force and that was a great speech. We need more leaders like him.

Ah, I can see it from that perspective easily. I read his post like it was about how widely toxic it can be, but I'm in a field where it's pretty spread out as far as diversity goes so my perspective is entirely different from someone on the flight line or a fire dog.

Casual sexist and racist tones don't go over well most of the time here but some people still get away with it.

And though its usually laughed about but at work, if there is enough black people talking to each other, people start to stare like we are plotting something.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
(09-29-2017, 06:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mahonay

GAF for the most part is definitely anti-war and anti-blind patriotism, but yeah I wouldn't say we give too much shit to military personnel themselves. Unless someone is being awful.

This. While I feel that the main purpose of our military is to defend rather than attack, I have the utmost respect for any men and women who choose to go into the military and put on that uniform. My father fought in Vietnam and my Grandfather in WWII.
Realeza
Banned
(09-29-2017, 06:03 PM)
Seems like a good leader, unlike the clown in office.
Game-Biz
Member
(09-29-2017, 06:11 PM)
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Goddamn good speech.

And Trump isn't going to like it because he mentioned the the NFL haha. Also he won't like it because he believes that demeaning people serves some good purpose. Hope to see more military officials make statements like this.

Trump is a piece of shit. Fuck that guy. Where the fuck is progressive Ivank, 5 years from now she'll be like like I was doing amzing shit behind the scnes know know and stuff my husband was like was trying to do his best its not fair for me to bare the burden of my father's sins. Well, no fuck you, you should have spoken out like months ago. Tiffany this is your moment. You literally can have the majority of the US and the world rally behind you if you tell your dad to go fuck himself. Fuck that inheritance you'll make money off the book deals. Oh god ok I'll stop drinking.
linkboy
Member
(09-29-2017, 07:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by ImTheJudgeandJury

Naw fuck his bullshit con game. He didn't talk about punishment he just said get out. If that was somebody black doing something they would get punished not an option as usual. I hope blacks don't fall for this.

He wasn't talking to the public, he was addressing the Air Force members under his command. He's not going to address any types of punishment in a briefing like that, as there's a lot of legal aspects involved.

Here's the thing, if an officer receives an an LOR, that's pretty much the equivalent of an dishonorable discharge. Their career as a military member is done and it's damn near impossible to get a civilian job.

Getting a dishonorable discharge can really screw your life up, even a general discharge makes you ineligible for the GI Bill.

Getting out of the military the wrong way is a huge form of punishment.

And making racist statements is a damn good way to be headed towards a general discharge at best.
Hollywood Duo
Member
(09-29-2017, 07:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by ImTheJudgeandJury

Naw fuck his bullshit con game. He didn't talk about punishment he just said get out. If that was somebody black doing something they would get punished not an option as usual. I hope blacks don't fall for this.

Getting kicked out of the military isn't a punishment?
Epsilon-delta
Banned
(09-29-2017, 07:37 PM)

Originally Posted by linkboy

He wasn't talking to the public, he was addressing the Air Force members under his command. He's not going to address any types of punishment in a briefing like that, as there's a lot of legal aspects involved.

Here's the thing, if an officer receives an an LOR, that's pretty much the equivalent of an dishonorable discharge. Their career as a military member is done and it's damn near impossible to get a civilian job.

Getting a dishonorable discharge can really screw your life up, even a general discharge makes you ineligible for the GI Bill.

Getting out of the military the wrong way is a huge form of punishment.

And making racist statements is a damn good way to be headed towards a general discharge at best.

Yup.

You want your DD-214 to say Honorable Discharge. Anything less makes your life significantly harder once in the civilian world.

Not only that, the military hands out general discharges like candy, so no GI Bill like you stated.
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
(09-29-2017, 07:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by linkboy

He wasn't talking to the public, he was addressing the Air Force members under his command. He's not going to address any types of punishment in a briefing like that, as there's a lot of legal aspects involved.

Here's the thing, if an officer receives an an LOR, that's pretty much the equivalent of an dishonorable discharge. Their career as a military member is done and it's damn near impossible to get a civilian job.

Getting a dishonorable discharge can really screw your life up, even a general discharge makes you ineligible for the GI Bill.

Getting out of the military the wrong way is a huge form of punishment.

And making racist statements is a damn good way to be headed towards a general discharge at best.

This x 100000 for officers. You could lose your security clearance that could have landed you some sweet civilian gig and have it haunt you on every background check.
MIMIC
Why won't homeless people take my emails????????
(09-30-2017, 01:46 AM)
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Awesome speech. Just saw it on CNN.
Vincent Alexander
Member
(10-01-2017, 04:30 AM)
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Finally watched. That was great. The ending when he asked them to pull out their phones was powerful.
JCHandsom
Member
(10-01-2017, 04:36 AM)
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airmangataosenai
Member
(11-09-2017, 02:58 AM)
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Update: They caught the guy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9588ddb79f20
Ubername
Member
(11-09-2017, 03:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by airmangataosenai

Update: They caught the guy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9588ddb79f20

Well that's pretty insane.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
(11-09-2017, 04:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by airmangataosenai

Update: They caught the guy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9588ddb79f20

At least the mystery is solved.

David Morrison (Chief of Army Lieutenant General) gave a somewhat famous "get out" speech a few years ago, here in Australia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqpoeVgr8U

The media was all over it at the time and the guy who gave the speech, won Australian of the Year for 2016.
Bigby_Wolf
Banned
(11-09-2017, 08:17 AM)

Originally Posted by airmangataosenai

Update: They caught the guy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9588ddb79f20

Welp.

I guess this is what happens when half the population is absolutely dogmatic about believing any accusation as a conviction.
llien
Member
(11-09-2017, 09:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by airmangataosenai

Update: They caught the guy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9588ddb79f20

That's one nuanced sense of humor:

revealed that a 21-year-old black man, Dauntarius Williams, admitted to defacing his car with racist graffiti as a “Halloween prank that got out of hand.” Scrawled in washable paint were racist messages telling blacks to “Go Home,” “Date your own kind,” and “Die.”

Grinchy
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(11-09-2017, 10:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by airmangataosenai

Update: They caught the guy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9588ddb79f20

Why does it seem like every single one of these kinds of stories ends up being a hoax?
CampbellzSoup
Member
(11-09-2017, 06:26 PM)
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What the fuck????
aaronsan
Member
(11-09-2017, 08:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Choppasmith

See, Trump? It's not hard.

Both sides... *runs away*
aaronsan
Member
(11-09-2017, 09:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bigby_Wolf

Welp.

I guess this is what happens when half the population is absolutely dogmatic about believing any accusation as a conviction.

What are you talking about? Did anyone discuss a conviction? Who could we convict without a suspect?

If you weren't so sensitive, you might understand all that's been said here as "if this was done in malice, fuck whoever did it."

Still, actually, I say that. This guy was a complete idiot. I'm pissed there are minorities who haven't learned better at this point than to give "half the population" more ammunition. The other half from the one you maligned.

Shooting himself in his foot. SMH
PuppetMaster
Member
(11-10-2017, 01:59 AM)
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The ending twist to this story... Man talk about giving your opponents exactly what they want.
Beerman462
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(11-10-2017, 03:24 AM)
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What a dumbass. Imagine how much strife this caused as they were looking for the perps.

This topic made me think of this from Military Times

It's not great, but look at officers vs enlisted. Now look at the different branches. Air Force is in general the most educated branch and Marines the least. So stupid people favor Trump. but we already knew that.
try2catchmike
Junior Member
(11-10-2017, 02:17 PM)

Originally Posted by Beerman462

What a dumbass. Imagine how much strife this caused as they were looking for the perps.

This topic made me think of this from Military Times



It's not great, but look at officers vs enlisted. Now look at the different branches. Air Force is in general the most educated branch and Marines the least. So stupid people favor Trump. but we already knew that.

Less education does not equate to being a stupid person.
jason10mm
Member
(11-10-2017, 02:23 PM)

Originally Posted by faisal233

Presidents come and go, General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand lives forever in your permanent record.

Hah, not true. There is local file or you can petition to have it removed after 3 years. Not that I have any direct experience with this.....

Despite how the story turned out, it is a good speech and pretty much what we have been teaching in the military for a decade or more. It is important to remember that most of the military has just 4-5 years of service, so they COME IN with their beliefs, the military does not create them. Unfortunately racism or sexism in the military is just reflective of the same in the civilian world.
CampbellzSoup
Member
(11-10-2017, 02:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by try2catchmike

Less education does not equate to being a stupid person.

The most factual statement in this thread
Putemintheoven
Junior Member
(11-10-2017, 04:44 PM)
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They don't give a shit about the people they blow up everyday, who cares who they respect. They're horrible.
rambis
Member
(11-11-2017, 02:32 PM)

Originally Posted by try2catchmike

Less education does not equate to being a stupid person.

Maybe true but you dont need to have a degree to know who's smarter on average between those two branches...


Originally Posted by Beerman462

What a dumbass. Imagine how much strife this caused as they were looking for the perps.

This topic made me think of this from Military Times



It's not great, but look at officers vs enlisted. Now look at the different branches. Air Force is in general the most educated branch and Marines the least. So stupid people favor Trump. but we already knew that.

As much as Marines go on about their deployments and shit they still support Trump, a fucking rich draft dodger who shits on war heros. I can't.

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