• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

Kadayi
Member
(10-29-2017, 11:21 PM)
Kadayi's Avatar
David Fincher's latest series about early 70s serial killer investigations. Anyone else watching this on Netflix?

I wasn't too sure about the subject matter (Zodiac never gelled for me..sorry Fincher fans) but I'm actually quite getting into this. It's a bit of a slow burn, but the interviews and getting a window into how the serial killers think in their own words is pretty compelling. Plus great performances across the board.
Vigilant Walrus
Junior Member
(10-29-2017, 11:26 PM)
Vigilant Walrus's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kadayi

David Fincher's latest series about early 70s serial killer investigations. Anyone else watching this on Netflix?

I wasn't too sure about the subject matter (Zodiac never gelled for me..sorry Fincher fans) but I'm actually quite getting into this. It's a bit of a slow burn, but the interviews and getting a window into how the serial killers think in their own words is pretty compelling. Plus great performances across the board.

People are work were going ballistic over it.

As someone who LOVED Hannibal, is this comparable?
Emperor_Uriel
Member
(10-29-2017, 11:27 PM)
Emperor_Uriel's Avatar
Just finished the second episode and... I dunno. I really like the older detective, but the main character is really irritating and a lot of the dialogue feels rote and wooden. The lines are delivered with such succinct timing that it makes it feel so unnatural.

Does anyone know if there's actually an overarching mystery to be solved and a main killer to be caught? If not, I'm certainly not sticking around just for the main cast.
Kadayi
Member
(10-29-2017, 11:34 PM)
Kadayi's Avatar

Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

As someone who LOVED Hannibal, is this comparable?

This is much more grounded given these are real cases, but it's no less engaging.

Originally Posted by Emperor_Uriel

Just finished the second episode and... I dunno. I really like the older detective, but the main character is really irritating and a lot of the dialogue feels rote and wooden. The lines are delivered with such succinct timing that it makes it feel so unnatural.

I get what you mean about the main character. He feels like odd casting, as he's kind of anonymous, but I think his curiosity is what's key to him. He's a thinker, and as the show progresses that comes out more.
STILLethal
Member
(10-30-2017, 12:11 AM)
STILLethal's Avatar
First few episodes are so slow and feel like theyre going nowhere, but I got done with episode 5 and loved it, hopefully the remaining episodes are that good
PabloBolivar
Member
(10-30-2017, 12:18 AM)
PabloBolivar's Avatar

Originally Posted by Emperor_Uriel

Just finished the second episode and... I dunno. I really like the older detective, but the main character is really irritating and a lot of the dialogue feels rote and wooden. The lines are delivered with such succinct timing that it makes it feel so unnatural.

Does anyone know if there's actually an overarching mystery to be solved and a main killer to be caught? If not, I'm certainly not sticking around just for the main cast.

It gets better. I felt the same as you. Stick with it
Darren870
Member
(10-30-2017, 12:21 AM)
Darren870's Avatar

Originally Posted by PabloBolivar

It gets better. I felt the same as you. Stick with it


Yep agree, already finished it. He is pretty bad in the beginning but gets so much better. Really great show.
deadscreensky
Member
(10-30-2017, 12:44 AM)
deadscreensky's Avatar

Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

People are work were going ballistic over it.

As someone who LOVED Hannibal, is this comparable?

Not even slightly, both in terms of quality and general tone. Hannibal is far more operatic and focused on the killers, and the writing, acting, and direction are all dramatically superior.

Mindhunter's an alright show, but it does a very poor job of building dramatic payoffs. It seems so disinterested in basic dramatic structure that I almost feel it has to be deliberate, but damned if I can figure out why. It's not interesting to have major things happen in a story and then nobody talks about or responds to that. But Mindhunter does it again and again, building up major themes or story beats and then losing any interest in seeing them through.

Some of the more obvious examples, each a different character:
Girlfriend's betrayal, relationship with son and his condition, leaving her girlfriend behind, new hire ratting out the team at least twice (something they were worried and talked about prior to it happening, then it happens and they don't respond). You can guess at how these play out, but you don't generally do major work building up drama only to make the audience imagine how it went. It's extremely unsatisfying and more than a little frustrating.

There's also some weirdly inconsistent characterization, where characters will completely change their perspective on something but it's all off-screen and unacknowledged. Deliberate stylistic choice, extreme scene cutting, bad/inconsistent writing, who knows?

All that said, if you're interested it's still worth a look; episode 7 is quite excellent and I liked the opening sections more than most. There's some good stuff in there even if the whole is on the weaker side. It's also easy to imagine a second season dramatically improving the quality. But as of now it feels to me like it's one of those examples of a story being compulsive ("what's going to happen next?!") and people confusing that addictiveness with actual quality that isn't truly there.
Vigilant Walrus
Junior Member
(10-30-2017, 12:57 AM)
Vigilant Walrus's Avatar

Originally Posted by deadscreensky

Not even slightly, both in terms of quality and general tone. Hannibal is far more operatic and focused on the killers, and the writing, acting, and direction are all dramatically superior.

Mindhunter's an alright show, but it does a very poor job of building dramatic payoffs. It seems so disinterested in basic dramatic structure that I almost feel it has to be deliberate, but damned if I can figure out why. It's not interesting to have major things happen in a story and then nobody talks about or responds to that. But Mindhunter does it again and again, building up major themes or story beats and then losing any interest in seeing them through.

Some of the more obvious examples, each a different character:
Girlfriend's betrayal, relationship with son and his condition, leaving her girlfriend behind, new hire ratting out the team at least twice (something they were worried and talked about prior to it happening, then it happens and they don't respond). You can guess at how these play out, but you don't generally do major work building up drama only to make the audience imagine how it went. It's extremely unsatisfying and more than a little frustrating.

There's also some weirdly inconsistent characterization, where characters will completely change their perspective on something but it's all off-screen and unacknowledged. Deliberate stylistic choice, extreme scene cutting, bad/inconsistent writing, who knows?

All that said, if you're interested it's still worth a look; episode 7 is quite excellent and I liked the opening sections more than most. There's some good stuff in there even if the whole is on the weaker side. It's also easy to imagine a second season dramatically improving the quality. But as of now it feels to me like it's one of those examples of a story being compulsive ("what's going to happen next?!") and people confusing that addictiveness with actual quality that isn't truly there.

I see. Is it more like "Making a Murderer" type thing? I've heard so much praise for that show as well!
Kadayi
Member
(10-30-2017, 01:14 AM)
Kadayi's Avatar

Originally Posted by deadscreensky

. But as of now it feels to me like it's one of those examples of a story being compulsive ("what's going to happen next?!") and people confusing that addictiveness with actual quality that isn't truly there.

Seriously? Hannibal is a work of pure unadulterated fiction whereas Mindhunter is based on real events and investigations and actions by the FBI. Naturally, it's going to be more mundane, because it's grounded in actual reality versus the OTT melodrama that Fuller concocted (which only lacked the cast singing before it went full Baz Luhrmann).

The subject matter on the surface might be the same, but attempting comparisons is pointless. These are very different beasts.
One Eyed Willy
Member
(10-30-2017, 01:24 AM)
I'll check it out tonight.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
(10-30-2017, 01:30 AM)
BlueTsunami's Avatar
I find I'm digging the clinical portrayal of the characters and story beats. Makes the sheer brutality of what these people are dealing with that much more horrific and helps make subtle quirks and emotions of these characters more discernable instead of being lost in melodrama.
kaizoku
I'm not as deluded as I make myself out to be
(10-30-2017, 01:31 AM)
kaizoku's Avatar

Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

I see. Is it more like "Making a Murderer" type thing? I've heard so much praise for that show as well!

No, MaM was all about cliffhangers and one more show and manufacturing tension and uncertainty.

Mindhunters is no where near as sensationalist or dramatic. It's not documentary style at all.

It's a bit like how orange is the new black is based on the real Piper's memoirs. Stuff happens, some of it is interesting, there's sub plots and overarching stories, its watchable. But it's nothing like Zodiac or MaM or any of the usual serial killler/murder mystery fare.
BubbaMc
Member
(10-30-2017, 03:05 AM)
BubbaMc's Avatar
I'm 7 episodes in and loving every minute of it.

Did anyone else think that Dr Wendy Carr was played by Carrie Coon? The resemblance is uncanny, I was shocked when I found out it wasn't her.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
(10-30-2017, 03:18 AM)
BlueTsunami's Avatar

Originally Posted by BubbaMc

I'm 7 episodes in and loving every minute of it.

Did anyone else think that Dr Wendy Carr was played by Carrie Coon? The resemblance is uncanny, I was shocked when I found out it wasn't her.

Automatically recognized her as Anna Torv, whos killing it in that role
jason10mm
Member
(10-30-2017, 03:56 AM)
I love it but it really helps to understand the history of what they are doing. So much of the shows topics have been straight up plagiarized in other fiction it can feel very derivative and anticlimactic. But it is awesone to see core profiling concepts be born onscreen.
awcarew
Member
(10-30-2017, 05:49 AM)
awcarew's Avatar

Originally Posted by Emperor_Uriel

Just finished the second episode and... I dunno. I really like the older detective, but the main character is really irritating and a lot of the dialogue feels rote and wooden. The lines are delivered with such succinct timing that it makes it feel so unnatural.

Does anyone know if there's actually an overarching mystery to be solved and a main killer to be caught? If not, I'm certainly not sticking around just for the main cast.

Stick around until at Episode 3 at a minimum for Anna Torv. Best actor in the show imo, she's on fire.
Maddrical
Member
(10-30-2017, 06:33 AM)
Maddrical's Avatar
I binged the whole season while I was off work sick. I'm a big Fincher fan and Zodiac is probably my favourite film of his (or close to, at least) so I was very excited. I enjoyed it but I think it's a bit forgettable, it's not really a show I'd tell someone that its essential viewing. I still don't really like the main guy, I understand he's purposely written that way but he's just so dull. Someone like Will Graham is so much more interesting, even if you take away his psychosis. The other characters are all very good though and I'm definitely keen for season 2.
segasonic
Member
(10-30-2017, 08:42 AM)
This show is great. Id rather compare it to the Wire than Hannibal. Real police work.
ManUnkindH
Member
(10-30-2017, 10:05 AM)
ManUnkindH's Avatar
Dat Ed Kemper though....
TVexperto
Member
(10-30-2017, 12:02 PM)
TVexperto's Avatar

Originally Posted by BubbaMc

I'm 7 episodes in and loving every minute of it.

Did anyone else think that Dr Wendy Carr was played by Carrie Coon? The resemblance is uncanny, I was shocked when I found out it wasn't her.

I was thinking the same thing lol

Also im glad the show already got renewed for a second season!
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
(10-30-2017, 03:48 PM)
Wolfgunblood Garopa's Avatar
Ed Kemper makes this show worth it. It's pretty incredible how real they depict him. From everything I've researched and know about him, that is exactly him.
ManUnkindH
Member
(10-30-2017, 04:00 PM)
ManUnkindH's Avatar

Originally Posted by Wolfgunblood Garopa

Ed Kemper makes this show worth it. It's pretty incredible how real they depict him. From everything I've researched and know about him, that is exactly him.

there's a really cool video comparison real Ed vs the movie one. They nailed it.

PS: here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDYBmNYc8IA&t=176s
Samurai G0SU
Member
(10-30-2017, 04:09 PM)
Samurai G0SU's Avatar
makes me ready for season 2. i enjoyed it a lot.
jason10mm
Member
(10-30-2017, 06:33 PM)
Finally finished it. Really enjoyed it, I guess the subject matter helped me get past the slow pace and tangential "home life" stuff that lacked a real payoff. I love how Holden has totally bought into his own BS, though I admit he did a good number reading into his girlfriend though it seemed like he talked her into accepting the breakup.

I really thought the cat food plot was going to end in a disembowelled cat or some other craziness but it's nice to see a show that shows home life and work life don't always overlap even though it also illustrates why, when a show does bother to show home life scenes, they almost always make them collide.

Anyone else think Holdens interrogation technique constitutes entrapment?

And why didn't the principal just say "Sure FBI guy, I'll stop tickling kids feet, WTF was I thinking?"
G-Bus
Member
(10-30-2017, 07:22 PM)
G-Bus's Avatar
Wasn't aware this show was based on facts and dialogue is taken from actual interviews. This changes everything.

Will watch tonight.
Samurai G0SU
Member
(10-30-2017, 08:15 PM)
Samurai G0SU's Avatar

Originally Posted by jason10mm

Finally finished it. Really enjoyed it, I guess the subject matter helped me get past the slow pace and tangential "home life" stuff that lacked a real payoff. I love how Holden has totally bought into his own BS, though I admit he did a good number reading into his girlfriend though it seemed like he talked her into accepting the breakup.

I really thought the cat food plot was going to end in a disembowelled cat or some other craziness but it's nice to see a show that shows home life and work life don't always overlap even though it also illustrates why, when a show does bother to show home life scenes, they almost always make them collide.

Anyone else think Holdens interrogation technique constitutes entrapment?

And why didn't the principal just say "Sure FBI guy, I'll stop tickling kids feet, WTF was I thinking?"

about the principal im not sure if they said this outright but i think there is an exchange between the principal and holden about holden when he was a teenager. like he was a student at one of his schools before and he doesnt need to listen to hioldens bullshit. i could be wrong but i swear it happened during the last interaction between them.
Marvel
could never
(10-30-2017, 09:39 PM)
Marvel's Avatar
About 5 episodes in, it's very very good.
Damon Bennet
Member
(10-30-2017, 09:44 PM)
Damon Bennet's Avatar
I enjoyed it. But it just didn't really go anywhere. Not sure if I'll stick with it.
deadscreensky
Member
(10-30-2017, 10:32 PM)
deadscreensky's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kadayi

Seriously? Hannibal is a work of pure unadulterated fiction whereas Mindhunter is based on real events and investigations and actions by the FBI. Naturally, it's going to be more mundane, because it's grounded in actual reality versus the OTT melodrama that Fuller concocted (which only lacked the cast singing before it went full Baz Luhrmann).

The subject matter on the surface might be the same, but attempting comparisons is pointless. These are very different beasts.

I'm only attempting a comparison because somebody asked if the shows were similar. I agree the shows are very different -- that was my actual point, you might have noticed -- but it's not some large stretch to compare the quality of two TV shows.

I like the mundane focus too, but (very loosely) basing your story on real events doesn't mean you can't follow basic dramatic rules. The show spends significant time setting up things it doesn't actually care about following through on, and for a viewer this is fairly obnoxious. Doing that a little would be fine, preserve some mystery for the viewer and the characters, but Mindhunter takes it so far that it feels like half a season of story is missing.
GuessWho
Member
(10-30-2017, 11:13 PM)
GuessWho's Avatar
first 5 episodes are VERY good, then it unfortunately loses steam.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
(10-31-2017, 02:27 AM)
Emperor_Uriel's Avatar
As someone who works in education, and sees male educators constantly faced with unfair scrutiny, that whole Principal Wade storyline made me feel awful. I've seen men in schools lose their jobs for innocent behavior just because people in the community aren't well informed on what constitutes "inappropriate" contact, and it's pure bigotry 99% of the time. The guy shouldn't have been isolating kids, that's always a no-no, but everything else about his behavior was harmless and showed zero signs of potential escalation.

Glad the show was ballsy enough to call out Ford for ruining a man's life because he wanted to see a monster where there was none, even if such prejudice is still commonplace in modern schools. It seems really relevant to a lot of modern controversies to show the perils of the "guilty until proven innocent" mindset.
120v
Member
(10-31-2017, 05:19 AM)
show is great but like i said in the last thread i find it weird the FBI was so abrasive to behavioral psychology as early as the late 70s. felt like i was watching something set in the 50s or something, but maybe that's how it really was back then (show is based on a book after all)
Kadayi
Member
(10-31-2017, 09:11 AM)
Kadayi's Avatar

Originally Posted by deadscreensky

I like the mundane focus too, but (very loosely) basing your story on real events doesn't mean you can't follow basic dramatic rules. The show spends significant time setting up things it doesn't actually care about following through on, and for a viewer this is fairly obnoxious. Doing that a little would be fine, preserve some mystery for the viewer and the characters, but Mindhunter takes it so far that it feels like half a season of story is missing.

Isn't that life though? In fiction things get resolved, but in reality oftentimes they don't. I think it's a ballsy move to leave certain things floating. Shows been renewed for a second season, so mayhap these matters you talk about will be addressed there.
iPaul93
Member
(10-31-2017, 11:52 AM)
iPaul93's Avatar
Easily the best show made by Netflix.
airjoca
Member
(10-31-2017, 12:23 PM)
airjoca's Avatar

Originally Posted by Emperor_Uriel

As someone who works in education, and sees male educators constantly faced with unfair scrutiny, that whole Principal Wade storyline made me feel awful. I've seen men in schools lose their jobs for innocent behavior just because people in the community aren't well informed on what constitutes "inappropriate" contact, and it's pure bigotry 99% of the time. The guy shouldn't have been isolating kids, that's always a no-no, but everything else about his behavior was harmless and showed zero signs of potential escalation.

Glad the show was ballsy enough to call out Ford for ruining a man's life because he wanted to see a monster where there was none, even if such prejudice is still commonplace in modern schools. It seems really relevant to a lot of modern controversies to show the perils of the "guilty until proven innocent" mindset.

I think the Jury is still out on that guy. I know how I'd feel if my son got that "special treatment" by the Principal...
Emperor_Uriel
Member
(10-31-2017, 02:13 PM)
Emperor_Uriel's Avatar

Originally Posted by airjoca

I think the Jury is still out on that guy. I know how I'd feel if my son got that "special treatment" by the Principal...

I'd be of two minds about it if it was my daughter. My biggest issue would be that it was being hidden from plain view, and I would absolutely forbid anyone (male or female) from being alone with my child like that. Non-explicit physical contact with kids is healthy, but it definitely shouldn't be done in such a shady and coercive manner.

However, because it isn't explicit or inherently inappropriate based on any evidence-based research, I'd ultimately give her agency over the matter. I've kept her very informed from a young age about consent and her ability to choose what is and isn't okay for others to do with her.

Handling the matter in such a cloak & dagger manner and allowing the community to label the guy a pedophile though... that's fucked up no matter how you look at it. Dude didn't even come close to hurting one of those kids.
segasonic
Member
(11-01-2017, 11:23 AM)
As a parent I say fuck the principal. Dude should have apologized and promised to never do that shit again. He had it coming.

With that said Holden was out of line as a federal agent to get involved like that.
crabman
Member
(11-01-2017, 11:07 PM)
crabman's Avatar

Originally Posted by BubbaMc

Did anyone else think that Dr Wendy Carr was played by Carrie Coon? The resemblance is uncanny, I was shocked when I found out it wasn't her.

I watched Fringe back in the day so i recognized Olivia Dunham :-)
LakeEarth
Member
(11-02-2017, 07:41 PM)
LakeEarth's Avatar

Originally Posted by segasonic

As a parent I say fuck the principal. Dude should have apologized and promised to never do that shit again. He had it coming.

With that said Holden was out of line as a federal agent to get involved like that.

I know the world was different back then, but seriously dude, once parents start threatening to sue, it's time to stop it with the feet.

I'm enjoying the show quite a bit.
Kadayi
Member
(11-04-2017, 07:12 PM)
Kadayi's Avatar
Yeah, the feet thing. I think if he'd just stopped when told then people would be ok with it, but the fact is, he didn't listen to what people were saying to him, and ultimately it cost him his job. Agreed though that it didn't require the FBI to get involved though.
DiddyBop
Member
(11-04-2017, 07:53 PM)
DiddyBop's Avatar
This show was awesome. Very slow burn and dialogue driven but all the conversations kept my attention. All the main characters were great too. Unfortunately I can't see the general populace toughing it out past the first episode but I really hope it was viewed enough for a S2 renewal
awcarew
Member
(11-05-2017, 01:04 AM)
awcarew's Avatar

Originally Posted by DiddyBop

This show was awesome. Very slow burn and dialogue driven but all the conversations kept my attention. All the main characters were great too. Unfortunately I can't see the general populace toughing it out past the first episode but I really hope it was viewed enough for a S2 renewal

You're in luck because it's already been renewed. Netflix hasn't made an official press release yet but they just purchased an old American Eagle warehouse in Warrendale just for the production of Season 2 of Mindhunter.
LakeEarth
Member
(11-05-2017, 01:40 AM)
LakeEarth's Avatar
That's good to hear, I'm sure there was interesting cases that the FBI was involved in that they could cover.
Burara
Junior Member
(11-05-2017, 04:08 AM)
i felt the main protag to be too arrogant and unable to take advice from experienced people.

near the end he was annoying.

i do like everything else.

i feel that after watching this, maybe we all are a bit psychopathic.
G-Bus
Member
(11-05-2017, 06:41 PM)
G-Bus's Avatar
Finished last night. Great season. First episode was pretty slow but once it picks up it really dragged nme in.

Feel a bit lost about the principle. Dont remember him at all. After Holden gets yelled at from the wife I thought they'd go into why but they never did. How in the hell did I miss all of that.

Can't wait for season two.
Mayyhem
Member
(11-05-2017, 06:57 PM)
Mayyhem's Avatar
Really got hooked by episode 4 or so, the show is chilling but amazing
MJLord
Member
(11-05-2017, 07:25 PM)
MJLord's Avatar

Originally Posted by Burara

i felt the main protag to be too arrogant and unable to take advice from experienced people.

near the end he was annoying.

i do like everything else.

i feel that after watching this, maybe we all are a bit psychopathic.

possible late season spoilers.
I think that's part of the point isn't it? He's detached himself from reality.
sparky2112
Member
(11-06-2017, 03:30 PM)
sparky2112's Avatar
The guy who plays Kemper deserves all the awards. Amazing performance.

Also, the older FBI agent? 'His name is Robert Paulson.' Fincher likes his peeps, apparently.

And Zeppelin in the last episode? BEASTLY musical choice. Fincher again, naturally.
Croatoan
Member
(11-06-2017, 04:31 PM)
Croatoan's Avatar
IDK, I loved it until it just....ended. Like there was no pay off for anything. I also dislike shows and movies that are basically slowly watching someone ruin their life type things. Mock me but I like happy endings :P

Thread Tools